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I thought you would be interested in the following exchange between Senator
Marco Rubio Mike Pompeo on democracy and human rights during Senate Foreign
Relations confirmation hearings earlier this week.

With best regards,

Ken


Kenneth Wollack
President
National Democratic Institute
455 Massachusetts Ave., NW, 8th Floor
Washington, DC 20001
202-728-5500 (Tel)
888-875-2887 (Fax)
email: ken@ndi.org
website: www.ndi.org


For Immediate Release

Thursday, April 12, 2018

View Online
<https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=Press-Releases&id=ABCE307F-C82C-4B18-A923-61E056678EAC>

Contact:

Olivia Perez-Cubas

202-224-3041


*VIDEO: AT POMPEO HEARING, RUBIO STRESSES PROMOTING DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS
AS ‘VITAL NATIONAL INTEREST’*


*Washington, D.C. *– At a Senate Foreign Relations hearing
<https://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearings/nomination-041218> today on CIA
Director Mike Pompeo’s nomination to be Secretary of State, U.S. Senator
Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Director Pompeo discussed why it is important for
U.S. foreign policy to promote democracy and human rights. Rubio identified
China, Russia, North Korea, Iran and radical jihadists as the biggest
international threats to the United States, and said what these threats
share is authoritarianism.


A video of the exchange is available here
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A085YsjR-7c&feature=youtu.be>. A rough
transcript of the exchange is below:


*Rubio: *First, just an editorial statement at the front end. One of the
reasons why I've been [a supporter of your nomination] -- apart from how
well I know the nominee and the work he has done in intelligence -- is I
think one of the critical components to be a successful secretary of state
is that when the secretary of state comes to town, leaders and diplomats
need to know that this is someone who is in the inner circle of the
president, that has the president's trust and speaks for the
administration. And I can just tell you from experience from the work that
we've done with Director Pompeo that if confirmed when he comes to town,
leaders around the world will know that someone who has not just access to
the president but is part of the president's trusted inner circle and
speaks for the president and for his policies, is just critical for the
success of the secretary of state.


And I would imagine if you've spoken as you have to all the living
secretary of states, they would have told you that that component of that
relationship is so important. And I would say anything that would undermine
that obviously is something that would undermine the ability to do the job
in that way.


I have a series of quick questions and they're important because it gives
people some context about your views on foreign policy and America's role
in the world which, by the way, predate your time at the Central
Intelligence Agency, includes your time in the House of Representatives and
perhaps even before that. You still agreed, do you not, on the matter of
the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that the United States has an obligation
to help Ukraine defend its sovereignty?


*Pompeo: *Yes, senator.


*Rubio:* And you still agree that, far from being a great public service,
Wikileaks is more of like a non-state actor hostile to the interest -- the
national interest and security of the United States?


*Pompeo:* Senator Rubio, I do believe that.


*Rubio: *And I think you still agree that Vladimir Putin's government
actively interfered in our presidential elections and -- elections at large
in 2016 and they did so because it's part of a long standing theory or
belief that through disinformation and propaganda they could win what,
quote/unquote, bloodless wars against democracies in the west including the
United States.


*Pompeo:* Yes, senator, that's correct.


*Rubio:* Of the five main threats facing the United State -- China, Russia,
Iran, North Korea and radical jihadists -- they all have one common
thread: authoritarianism. Would you agree that today the major fault line
in global affairs repeatedly is the competition, really a global
competition, between autocratic systems of governance and the democratic
systems -- that that in many ways has played out over and over again in the
foreign affairs of this country and in global issues?


*Pompeo:* Senator, it is with striking consistency the case that the
countries that share our vision of the world and share our democratic
values are not authoritarian and those that don't, are not.


*Rubio:* In that vein, you would again agree that promoting democracy isn't
just a nice thing to do or good thing to do or promoting democracy is not
us butting into other people's business or invading their sovereignty. So
it's more than just a moral imperative, promoting democracy is in the
context of that competition as we've just discussed, promoting democracy is
in the vital national interest of the United States?


*Pompeo: *Yes, indeed, senator. And our effectiveness at doing that is an
important tool of American foreign policy.


*Rubio: *And there is this ridiculous argument out there when people talk
about Russian interference and their efforts and so forth that that's no
different than what America does when it promotes democracy. There are huge
differences, are there not? For example, when they interfere in an election
they're trying to influence the outcome. When we promote democracy we're
trying to improve the process, not necessarily who they elect. Sometimes
democracies elect leaders that are not as friendly towards the United
States.


When they interfere in elections they use government and there is
intelligence agencies and the like. When we promote democracy it's largely
through the work of non-governmental organizations who may receive
assistance from our government.


When they undermine democracy they do it in secret, they hide it and deny
it.


We do it openly. We brag about it. We are talking about it here today. And
when we promote democracy we do it at the invitation of someone in those
countries, whether it's a political party, an organization, oftentimes the
government itself. When they undermine democracy, they do so against the
will of the people of that nation and of the governments in place. There is
no equivalence between the promotion of democracy and Russian and other
attempts to interfere in democracy.


*Pompeo:* Senator, there is neither an operational equivalence as you've
described it, that is the methodologies used are very different nor is
there a moral equivalence between the two efforts. They are fundamentally
different in every day and America's democracy promotion around the world
is conducting in way that America should be incredibly proud of.


*Rubio: *One of the first things autocratic rulers do, almost by
definition, is they violate the human rights of their people and of course
have no problem violating the human rights of others as we've recently seen
through war crimes and atrocities repeatedly committed by an autocratic
government in Syria with the support of autocratic governments in Iran and
Russia. Therefore, I believe you would agree that defending human rights
isn't just a good thing to do or just the right moral thing to do which it
most certainly is, defending human rights is also in the national interest
of the United States of America?


*Pompeo:* I do believe that, senator.


*Rubio:* And it would be a priority at the State Department?


*Pompeo: *It would. Not only do I believe it, I think history would reflect
that would be the case.


*Rubio:* After the end of the Cold War, we had this belief that history had
ended and everybody would be a democracy and embrace capitalism as we
understand it with free economics and the like. That hasn't really worked
out in the case of a lot of places, particularly China. They have most
certainly not embraced democracy, they have actually gotten more autocratic
and they have embraced a definition of the world economic order that
basically means we will take all the benefits of global trade and global
economics, but we do not intend to live by any of its obligations.


So I personally believe that it was a terrible mistake that leaders in both
parties have made. Now as part of their strategy you see China doing things
like trying to create strategic depth in Eurasia. Their efforts to
establish all these different programs: the Belt and Road Initiative, the
Silk Road and Maritime Silk Road. They're not just efforts to create new
overland trade corridors, they're efforts to basically make these nations
economically, politically and eventually militarily dependent on and
vulnerable to China.


And their maritime borders in the South and East China Sea, you see that
they feel vulnerable and insecure. They see American allies in Japan, South
Korea, Australia and Taiwan. So what they are working on now is fracturing
our economic and defense alliances in the Indo-Pacific region. That’s why
they're investing billions of dollars in building up their navy and their
air force to be able to establish air and sea denial to the U.S. military.
And ultimately make the argument that ‘don’t count on America’s defense
and/or economic partnership because it’s just paper. They can’t live up to
it anymore.’


What are your recommendations for the president as far as how important
that challenge is otherwise we are going to wake up one day and find out we
have been driven from the Asia-Pacific Region?


*Pompeo:* Senator, as the CIA Director I’ve often been asked what's the
greatest threat to the United States. It's always hard to prioritize and
rank. We have a handful, we’ve got lots of opportunities as well. China
certainly presents a strategic challenge to the United States of America.
You laid out the various tools and mechanisms that they are using, mostly
economic. The United States needs to be prepared to respond across each of
those fronts so that we can find the right ground, the right place where we
can cooperate with the Chinese, where it makes sense for America and then
those places where it does not we can confront them and make sure that it
is America's vision, a democratic vision, that continues to provide
strength and resources for the world.


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