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THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Vice President
Internal Transcript January 18, 2013


INTERVIEW OF VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN
BY GLORIA BORGER, CNN

The Secretary of War Suite
Eisenhower Executive Office Building


2:25 P.M. EST


Q Mr. Vice President, thank you so much for being with us.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It's great to be here.

Q And I have to say, you've been at this job for four years now; what was the "ah-hah" moment for you when you finally figured out how to do it?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it was -- there wasn't a moment, but it was -- I can tell you what made it work. What made it work is that if you go back to the days when we were actually competing for the nomination -- I didn't compete very well -- but competing, all those debates we had, the only two people who didn't disagree on any subject were Barack Obama and Joe Biden. So when we got into this deal, we didn't have what other administrations have had where the Vice President and the President have a different take on the major issues of the day. We're totally simpatico.

And what developed, and it made it easier, was it went from working with each other to a friendship. I mean, we actually -- real trust built. And so what happened was that it ended up that whatever assignment I got, it wasn't -- there wasn't any conflict. I didn't have any doubt about whether he was right about the assignment he was giving me.

But I think if there was an "ah-hah" moment whether the job was worth it, was when he asked me to coordinate Iraq policy to end the war in Iraq early on in the administration, and the day that I showed up in Baghdad -- you may have even been there, I don't know -- where I stood on the stage with Prime Minister Maliki and President Talabani, assembled American and Iraqi troops, and I was able to say to the American troops assembled, with General Austin, gentlemen and ladies, you're dismissed because you have done the job you were sent to do. Like all Americans, you're going home with nothing but your pride and the knowledge of a job well done.

I got off that stage -- it was a moving moment for me -- went back, picked up the phone and I said, you know I've been kidding you about whether this job is worth it -- thank you. Thank you for asking me to do this job. This has made it all worth it. That was probably the moment.

Q We know, though, that you have disagreed with the President over policy. You've spoken about that. And you know how to read him pretty well. So how can you tell when you've done something that he doesn't like, or that makes him angry?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Oh, that's easy. That's easy. The one thing about the relationship -- and you probably -- you have a lot of contacts. I'm sure you heard from anybody who knows, is that we made a deal early on: When either one of us were dissatisfied, we just flat tell the other person. And so lunch once a week, that's when we talk. And when he's not liked something I've done he just flat tells me.

Q So he says, Joe, you shouldn't have that?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: He says, Joe -- no, he says, Joe, look, I don't agree with the way you did that. Why did you do A, B, C or D? Or he will say, or I will say, hey, look, man, I don't like the way this is going; this is what we -- so there's complete openness.

But we haven't disagreed on -- we sometimes disagreed on tactic as to how to proceed to try to get what he wanted done, which I've agreed with. But we've never disagreed on policy. Even the so-called discussion about my saying I was comfortable with gay and lesbians and relationships. I knew his position. That was --

Q But you got out in front of him on it.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well --

Q And that's -- that can be a problem.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: But I can tell you how he responded. I walked into the office and he got up, smiled, gave me a big hug and he said, I tell you what, man, one of the things I like about you, you say what's on your mind.

Q You said it caused a little apoplexy around here.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It did, but not with him. Not with him.

Q With the staff, but not the President?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Not the President.

Q Did you think you were in trouble? Okay, so --

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No.

Q Okay. Let me ask you about this: You have been involved in the fiscal cliff. You cut the deal. You're known as the closer now around the White House. Are you the only one who can cut deals with Republicans now?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, no, no. Look, first of all, the only reason I'd be able to close any deal is because everybody knows I speak for the President. I mean, there's never any question when I walk into a foreign leader's office or I walk up on the Hill that I -- whatever I say, I have his complete support for what I'm saying, because I know what he wants -- number one.

Number two, I think the reason why we make a good team -- Tip O'Neill used to say, and you'll recall, politics is local, and you've heard me say. I seldom disagree with Tip O'Neill, God rest his soul. But all politics is personal. It's all personal, and it's based on trust. And I have spent a lot of time in this town, and I have personal relationships with people I strongly disagree, but there's trust. And so I'm a logical person -- a logical person to, as they say, you guys say, close the deal. But it's the President, not me. It's the President.

Q But it's no secret that you and the President are very different people. You're hot; he's cool. (Laughter.) You're a natural backslapper; he's been accused of being more insular. Is this -- has the President sort of -- does the marriage work because he married his opposite?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, look, I think what you hope -- and he used this phrase one time -- that we kind of make up for whatever weaknesses the other guy has. And I've got a hell of a lot more weaknesses than he does. The one place that -- I just have had a lot of experience with a lot of the people we deal with.

Everybody talks about, well, it's backslapping, it's -- it's not. It's trust. It's simple, simple trust. Find a single person -- and you know this town better -- who will look you in the eye and say, I don't trust Joe Biden. I built my whole career -- my whole career -- on never, never, never doing anything with someone I'm dealing with in the opposite position without being completely straightforward with him.

And it's just that I've been around longer, and they know me. But they also know I speak for him, and he will keep whatever commitment I make on his behalf.

Q Let's turn to the administration's agenda. And again, you're the point man now in a very important issue, which is gun control. And as we sit here today, gun sales and NRA membership are at an all-time high. Why do you think that is?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, look, let's look at this in perspective. Gun sales relative to total population, NRA membership relative to total population is not the real measure. The real measure is the voice of the American public. The American public is overwhelmingly where the President of the United States is: on having a rational gun policy.

We start off with two basic foundational notions. One, there is a Second Amendment, and law-abiding citizens have a right to own a weapon and deal with it responsibly. But there's a second piece. The second piece is that there are certain people in American society who have forfeited the right to have that Second Amendment right. They are convicted felons, they are people who have been adjudicated mentally incompetent, they are people who have engaged in violence against their spouses. There's a whole range of people.

And so there's a growing consensus in this country, a growing consensus, among even sportsmen and other groups about everything from who should own a weapon, and what information should be available, et cetera. And I think there's a consensus growing, not a -- it's not getting harder.

Q Do you think the NRA is stoking fear against this President?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Look, I think the NRA's reaction -- overreaction is a reflection of a vulnerability of their position. That's what I think. You know, I've done this before. I'm the guy that passed the assault weapons ban.

Q More than 20 years ago.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. And because the so-called Biden crime bill had a life span of 10 years and had to be renewed during the Bush administration, there was no desire in 2004 to renew it. But that doesn't mean there's still not a consensus for the bulk of what we're proposing.

Q So can you guarantee that the President will sign some form of major gun legislation?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Look, I can't guarantee anything the Congress is going to do. You know that. But I can guarantee the President and I are absolutely committed to take this fight to the American people for a rational gun safety policy in America. And there are -- it's complicated, but some of it is very straightforward and simple. There are certain kinds of weapons and magazines that shouldn't be permitted. There are certain people who shouldn't own those weapons. There is certain information that should be available. And so it is -- there actually -- I met with 128 organizations this time, 128 -- and 80 percent agreement on the major elements of what should be a rational gun policy in America.

Q Let me just turn to the economy, if I could for a minute.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Sure.

Q You've got three huge fiscal fights coming up, starting with the debt ceiling. The President says it's irresponsible and absurd not to vote to raise the debt ceiling. He once voted against raising it back when he was in the Senate. You did, too, a couple of times. So was it -- yes?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't think I did, but go ahead.

Q Well, was it irresponsible and absurd then?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: What's irresponsible and absurd is genuinely thinking that it's okay to renege on the national debt. And that had never happened in all my years in the Senate. What used to happen is it was an easy vote to give people a way out to say they didn't want to fight that, you know, and so on.

But there was a never a time in 2010 and all the years I was in the Senate when anybody really thought that the Congress would not pay its debts. No one ever thought that.

Q There's also a fight coming up on perhaps shutting the government down. Should the President be willing to let the government shut down on that fiscal fight?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Now, look, here's the deal. The President has made this absolutely clear. It's irresponsible -- irresponsible -- not to pay for the debts we've already piled up. It's irresponsible. And the consequence for the United States and quite frankly the world economy would be devastating if we didn't. And -- look at me -- the Republicans aren't going to do that. They finally figured it out. All this bluster about you're going to renege on the debt -- they will not, because there are more responsible people in that party than irresponsible. So it's not going to happen.

Now, will there be a fight over how we finish out what we started off to do, a grand bargain? We said from the beginning that there should be over the next 10 years about $4 trillion in reduction in the debt over the next 10 years. We've done two-thirds of that job already. We've cut spending by over $2 trillion. We've raised revenue by over $600 billion. We've said from the beginning there is a balance here.

The American people get this. This is not that complicated. Politically it's complicated, but not mathematically. And so we ought to be able to in the next three months finish out that grand bargain to get us to the point -- I sound like an economist here -- where debt-to-GDP is about 3 percent. Every economist left, right and center says when that happens, the economy grows. I think we'll get there.

Q And let me turn to foreign policy.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

Q You have a new team --

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

Q -- which the Republicans are criticizing -- if your team gets confirmed, which the Republicans are criticizing as too dovish, too reluctant to use force if necessary. And that's saying -- they say that's a reflection of the real President Obama.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: (Laughter.) Where they have been four year?

Q What do you say to that?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Where have they been for four years? The real President Obama has exercised force responsibly as boldly and as bravely as any President in American history. This is the guy who has not backed away.

And he's also ended wars that almost every military man out there will tell you we should not be engaged in again. The idea of getting engaged in a ground war in a country that's in transition is not a prescription any military man would suggest.

And to suggest that two war heroes -- winning the Bronze Star, a Purple Heart, Silver Star -- taking over both the State Department and Defense is a -- or whatever the phrase was is ridiculous.

Q Let me -- I know you're just being sworn in.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

Q But looking ahead, four more years, you made it clear in one way or another that you are considering a presidential bid of your own. Is there any reason you wouldn't run?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Oh, there's a whole lot of reasons why I wouldn't run. I haven't made that decision. And I didn't have to make that decision for a while. In the meantime there's one thing I know I have to do no matter what I do: I have to help this President move this country to the next stage.

We're out of the god-awful situation we were in the first time we were sworn in where we had two wars, al Qaeda on the ascendancy, the economy in the tank like it hadn't been since the Great Depression. We're beyond that. Now we -- I've never been more optimistic in my life. We are in a position where we are able to be -- to the point where we can bring this debt under control, sound financial policy, energy independence in a way we've never thought about before. We're respected by the world again like we haven't been for the last 20 years. America is better positioned than any nation in the world to lead the world -- the economy and the politics of the world -- than we have been since the end of World War II.

Q So are you ready to run against Hillary Clinton in 2016?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Look, I haven't made that judgment. And Hillary hasn't made that judgment, but I can tell you what: Everything that should be done over the next two years that I should be part of would have to be done whether I run or I don't run. If this administration is successful, whoever is running as a Democrat is better positioned to win. If we're not successful, whoever runs as the nominee is going to be less likely to win.

Q Thank you very much, Mr. Vice President.

END 2:40 P.M. EST